| Title: | Two Copies Of Letter & Extract In Hand ?, John Dury To Hartlib |
|---|---|
| Dating: | undated & 3 November [1644] |
| Ref: | 1/20/1A-8B: 5B, 6A, 7B-8B BLANK |
| Notes: | Originals at 3/2/55 & 3/2/74. |
[1/20/1A]
<another hand: Durie to H>
Concerning the Vnion of the
Brittish[H alters] Church in Holland
Loueing Frende
The Motion[H alters from Motions] which I made in my former to you in generall tearmes which Mr Pettrey here & Mr Forbes now with you haue approued I haue imparted vnto others: who all much like of it: as a thing most expedient to be intended: you know what I meane Namely that some Hortatorye: and perswasiue letter: should be sent from the Assembly of Diuines: to the Brittish Churchs[H alters from Church] & ministers: in these prouinces: to moue them to entertaine brotherly loue together: & to imbrace Mutuall Corespondency: in matters of Publique edification: It[H alters] is a thinge very preiudictiall to the saluation of[altered?] soules: & to gods glorie & the honour of the Gospell: that we haue no Amiable way of communicateinge one with another in Church Affaires: but euery one standing at Distance with his neighbour & doeing all by himselfe: ly open to the Censure of another: from whence scandalles are infinitly multiplyed: in the mynds of the weaker: & the prophaner sorte: cast a blemish & contempt vpon all Religion: as if it were but a conceited fancy: of some ministers: that follow euery one theire seuerall wayes in gods worship: to gather Disciples[altered] to themselues & gaine a subsistence[H? alters from subsistance] from them: & strangers of the Dutch & French nations looke vpon the English: with astonishment as if they were altogether vnsotiable of entertaineing brotherly communion: which thinges as they are Dishonourable [catchword: both]
[1/20/1B]
Vnto god: & the name of <H: the> nations: in these[H alters] partes so they ought to be remidied: if by any meanes possible either of perswasion[H alters from perswation] or authority: a way can be taken to doe it: but these inconueniences: are not all the euill: which ariseth: from our Deuided & distracted condition[altered from condiction]: For[H capitalises] from this fountaine: Doth also flow this: that it weakeneth the hands of the best affected[H alters]: in all endeauours of[H alters from in] a Publique nature: And so maketh the intent of the Nationall Couenant: voyd in those[altered] that faine would see it accomplished: for the settlement of peace: & prosperitie in the Church & Common Wealth: It[H capitalises] is not vnknowne what the Influence of the Brittish may be here vpon the natiues & what aduantage it would be vnto the cause if[H alters from of] the Churchs[H alters from Church] of the natiues (as they are in Priuat [superscript o?] <H: affection> addicted <left margin, H?: )> so also: were in some Publique way of Concurrence effectually moued: or drawne on: to ioyne in helpeing hands: towards the settlement of Religion in the 3 kingdomes: but this benefit cannot be had from them <left margin, H: except the Brittish Churches here were in a Case fitted to entertaine with them>:
[1/20/2A]
State and to the Gospell: there is none other way Left: in my Iudgment but to vse meanes: to bringe them to some <H: good> inteligence: amongst themselues: & to doe this: nothing is so likely: to take with all: as a serious & a graue exhortation: from the Assemblie of [diuines?]: in a brotherly manner: adressed to the ministers of these partes: of the Brittish nation: Indefinitly wherein first: The matter of Conscience bindinge vs to mainetaine the Communion of Saints: with such as are brethren: 2ly the matter of Priuat and Publique Edification Depending vpon the Results of brotherly Communion: 3ly The Duty of preuenting & takeing away stumbling blockes scandalls and reproaches: which the weake receiue: & the malicious take vp against the profession of the Gospell: 4ly The causes of <H: true> religion & iust liberty lying now at the stake in the 3 Kingdomes & in many other places: 5ly The naturall & spirituall Obligation which euery natiue ought to haue to his mother nation & Church: 6ly The most Lawdable [
[1/20/2B]
Consiences[H alters] would bringe this aboute or else shew it impossible to be done by way of exhortation: & intreatie As[H capitalises] for me I am Confident: it would worke the Effect intended with many: & if once a begineing were made of some brotherly Communion amongst some: though but a few: it is very likely that there example would moue the rest to follow: & ioyne with them: now to gett the diuines of the Assemblie induced to vndertake this taske: the Parlliament might be informed of the vsefullnes thereof: & the benefitt: what will from thence redound vnto the cause: & <H: to> set Consiencious Diuines a worke: to helpe on the motion towards the Parlliament: this case of consience might be proposed vnto them: that they should consider whither yea or no: theire Oath[H capitalises] in the Couenant whereby they are bound to endeauour: the nearest Vniformity[H alters from Conformity] <left margin, H: that may bee obtained in Religion between the 2. kingdoms doth not bind them to vse all apparant meanes that may further that Vniformity.>: & if this Concurrence of the Brittish Churchs[H alters from Church] amongst themselues: & with there brethren in Great Brittaine: towards the Aymes before mencioned: be an apparent meanes: to produce in some measure that Effect: then it is Cleare that in Consience they are obliged: to vse there best endeauours to Effect it:/
[1/20/3A]
Concerning the Vnion of the Brittish[H alters]
Churchs[H alters from Church] in Holland:/
Loueing Frende
The Motion[H alters from Motions] which I made in my former to you in generall tearmes: which Mr Pettrey: here & Mr Forbes now with you haue approued I haue imparted vnto others: who all much like of it: as a thinge most expedient to be intended: you know what I meane: namely that some Hortatorie: & perswasiue letter should be sent: from the Assemblie[H capitalises] of Diuines: to the Brittish Churchs[H alters from Church] & ministers: in these prouinces to moue them to entertaine brotherly loue together: & imbrace Mutuall Correspondencie: in matters of Publique Edification <H: It> It[H alters and deletes] is a thinge very preiudiciall to the saluation of soules: & to gods glorie & the honour of the gospell: that we haue no amiable way of Communicatinge one with another in Church affaires: but euery one standing at Distance with his neighbour & doeing all by himselfe: lyes open to the Censure of another: from whence scandalles are infinitely multiplyed: in the mynds of the weaker: & the prophaner sort: cast a blemish & contempt vppon all religion: as if it were but a conceited fancy: of some ministers: that follow euery one there seuerall wayes in gods worship: to gather Disciples[H alters] to them-selues: and gaine a subsistance from them: & strangers: of the Dutch and French nations: looke vppon the English with astonishment: as if they were all togather vnsociable: and incapable of entertaineing brotherly Communion: Which thinges as they are Dishonorable both vnto god: & <H: to> the name of <H: the> nation[H alters from nations] in theise[H alters] partes
[1/20/3B]
So they ought to be remidied: if by any meanes possible either of perswasion or authority: a way can be taken to doe it: but these inconueniences: are not all the euill: which ariseth: from our Diuided & Distracted condiction: For from this fountaine: Doth also flow this: that it weakeneth the hands of the best affected in all Indeauours of a Publique nature: & so maketh the intent of the nationall Couenant: Voyd in those that would faine see it accomplished: For[H capitalises] the settlement of peace: & Prosperitie in the Church & Common Wealth: It is not vnknowne what the Influence of the Brittish: may be here vpon the natiues: And what aduantage it would be vnto the cause: if[altered] the churches of the natiues (as they are in priuate <H: affection> addicted) so allso: were in some Publique way of Concurrence effectually moued: or drawne on: to joyne in helpeing hands: towards the settlement of religion in the 3 kingdomes: but this benefit: cannot be had from them: except the Brittish Churches[H alters from Church] here: were in a case fitted to entertaine with them: [word deleted] Communion to that effect: & they neuer can be in that case: till they first begine to entertaine Communion: one with another Therefore to make the Brittish: who are here well
[1/20/4A]
both[altered from Both] to the state and to the Gospell: there is none other way left: in my Iudgment: but to vse meanes to bringe them to some good Inteligence: amongst themselues: & to doe this: nothing: is so likely: to take withall: as a serious & graue exhortation: from the Assemblie of Diuines: in a brotherly manner: Adressed: to the ministers of these partes: of the Brittish nation: in Definitly, wherein first: the matter of Consience Binding vs to maintaine the Communion of saints: with such as are brethren: 2ly the matter of Priuat & Publique Edification: Depending vpon the: Rresults of Brotherly communion: 3ly the Duty of preuenting: & takeing away stumbleing blockes Scandalls & reproaches: which the weake receiue: & the malicious take vp against the profession of the gospell: 4ly the Causes of true Religion: & iust liberty: lying now at the stake in the 3 Kingdomes: & in many other places: 5ly the Naturall & spirituall obligation: which euery natiue ought to haue vnto his mother nation & Church 6ly The most Laudable
[1/20/4B]
:Or else shew it impossible to be done by way of exhortation: & intreatie: As for me I am confident: it would worke the effect intended with many: & if once: A begininge were made of some brotherly Communion amongst some: though but a few: it is very likely that there example would moue the rest to follow: & to ioyne with them: now to gett the Diuines of the Assemblie induced: to vndertake this taske: the Parlliament might be informed of the vsefullnes thereof: & the benefitt: what will from thence redound vnto the cause: & <H: to> set Consiencious Diuines a worke: to helpe on the Motion towards the Parlliament: this case of Consience might be proposed vnto them: that they should consider whither yea or no: there oath in the Couenant: whereby they are bound to indeauour: the nearest vniformity <left margin, H: that may bee obtained in Religion between the 2. kingdoms doth not bind them to vse all apparent meanes, that may further that Vniformitie>: & if this Concurrence of the Brittish Churchs[H alters from Church] amongst themselues: & with theire <brethren> in Great Brittaine towards the Aymes before mencioned: be an apparent meanes to produce in some measure that Effect: then it is cleare: that In Consience they are obliged to vse theire best Indeauours to effect[H alters from perffect?] it:/
[1/20/5A]
[another hand:]
An Extract of Mr Durys Letter }
to Mr. Hartlib: Dated Nouember 3/Octob: 24:}
[scribal hand:]
I pray let me know if there be any hope of getting Assistance for bringing the Brittish here into some nearer Communion one with another: which will Certainely be an infinite Aduantage vnto the cause: & to doe this (as I haue told you all readie) there is no greater matter Requisite then a Letter Hortatory to that effect: written vpon Theologicall Grounds: which all in Consience are bound to practise: And what allthough the Assembly that Doth Write it hath not yet beene able: to settle matters in England: I say that ought not to be a stoppe vnto the endeauours to exhorte vs: because there is greate ods: we are few: and the Church of England very many: Wee are few: & the Churchs[H alters from Church] of <H: in> England very many: Wee are without Opposition [from a] <H: or any> Visible [course?] <left margin, H: Cause> of distraction: <H: but the Church and State of England is in a great distraction> & euery where opposed[H alters from opposition] by euill Instruments[H alters] within itselfe: & allthough they are not settled: yet it will be vsefull to testifie by this meanes: there desire & endeauours[H alters from endeauour] to procure euery where a settled Course: amongst the Churches of their Nation & there first: where it is <H: most> likely to be aduanced: without Difficultie<H?: ,> as here<H?: ,> & become either a president or a helpe to others to follow: which sole reason besides the benefite of Correspondencie with these Churches which will insue, & be a meanes to strenthen theyr hande in the worke should induce them not to Defferre or Refuse the Writinge of such a letter which may sett vs here a Worke towards our owne Edification: and the Assistance[H capitalises?] of them selues in the Cause[H alters] [I?]
[1/20/7A]
[scribe:]
An Extract of Mr Durys}
Letter to Mr Hartlib Dated Nuouemb October 24}
I pray let me know if there be any hope of getting assistance for bringing the Brittish here into dome nearer Communion one with another: which will be Certainely an Infinite Aduantage vnto the cause: & to doe this (as I haue told you already) there is no greater matter Requisite then a letter Hortatory to that Effect: written vpon Theologicall grounds: which[H alters] all in Consience are bound to practise: & what allthough the Assemblie that Doth write it hath not yet beene able: to settle matters in England: I say that ought not to be a stoppe vnto the endeauours to exhorte vs: because there is great ods: we are few & the churchs[H alters from church] of England very many: wee are without opposition <left margin, H: or without any visible Cause of distraction but the Church and State of England is in a great distaction and every where opposed> by euill Instruments[H capitalises?] within itselfe: & although they are not settled: yet it will be vsefull to testifie by this meanes: theire desire & endeauour to procure euery where a settled Course: amongst the Churches of there Nation: & there first where it is likely to be aduanced: without Difficulty as here: & become either a president or a helpe to others to follow: which sole reason besides the benefite: of Correspondence with these Churchs[H alters from Church]: which will insue & be a meanes to strengthen there hande in the worke: should induce them not to differre[altered] or refuse the writteing of such a letter: which may set vs here a worke: towards our owne Edification: and the assistance of themselues in the Cause[H alters from Course?]: [I?]